#482 – Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

About this episode

<p>Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram.<br /> Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc">https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc</a><br /> See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.</p> <p><b>Transcript:</b><br /> <a href="https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript">https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript</a></p> <p><b>CONTACT LEX:</b><br /> <b>Feedback</b> &#8211; give feedback to Lex: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/survey">https://lexfridman.com/survey</a><br /> <b>AMA</b> &#8211; submit questions, videos or call-in: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/ama">https://lexfridman.com/ama</a><br /> <b>Hiring</b> &#8211; join our team: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/hiring">https://lexfridman.com/hiring</a><br /> <b>Other</b> &#8211; other ways to get in touch: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/contact">https://lexfridman.com/contact</a></p> <p><b>EPISODE LINKS:</b><br /> Pavel&#8217;s Telegram: <a href="https://t.me/durov">https://t.me/durov</a><br /> Pavel&#8217;s X: <a href="https://x.com/durov">https://x.com/durov</a><br /> Telegram: <a href="https://telegram.org/">https://telegram.org/</a><br /> Telegram Contests: <a href="https://contest.com/">https://contest.com/</a></p> <p><b>SPONSORS:</b><br /> To support this podcast, check out our sponsors &#38; get discounts:<br /> <b>Miro:</b> Online collaborative whiteboard platform.<br /> Go to <a href="https://lexfridman.com/s/miro-ep482-sc">https://miro.com/</a><br /> <b>UPLIFT Desk:</b> Standing desks and office ergonomics.<br /> Go to <a href="https://lexfridman.com/s/uplift_desk-ep482-sc">https://upliftdesk.com/lex</a><br /> <b>Fin:</b> AI agent for customer service.<br /> Go to <a href="https://lexfridman.com/s/fin-ep482-sc">https://fin.ai/lex</a><br /> <b>LMNT:</b> Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.<br /> Go to <a href="https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep482-sc">https://drinkLMNT.com/lex</a><br /> <b>Shopify:</b> Sell stuff online.<br /> Go to <a href="https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep482-sc">https://shopify.com/lex</a></p> <p><b>OUTLINE:</b><br /> (00:00) &#8211; Introduction<br /> (02:46) &#8211; Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections<br /> (11:29) &#8211; Philosophy of freedom<br /> (14:37) &#8211; No alcohol<br /> (22:42) &#8211; No phone<br /> (28:38) &#8211; Discipline<br /> (49:50) &#8211; Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics<br /> (1:05:12) &#8211; Arrest in France<br /> (1:21:23) &#8211; Romanian elections<br /> (1:32:18) &#8211; Power and corruption<br /> (1:41:50) &#8211; Intense education<br /> (1:53:51) &#8211; Nikolai Durov<br /> (1:58:19) &#8211; Programming and video games<br /> (2:02:33) &#8211; VK origins &#38; engineering<br /> (2:19:46) &#8211; Hiring a great team<br /> (2:29:02) &#8211; Telegram engineering &#38; design<br /> (2:48:04) &#8211; Encryption<br /> (2:53:01) &#8211; Open source<br /> (2:57:48) &#8211; Edward Snowden<br /> (3:00:20) &#8211; Intelligence agencies<br /> (3:01:32) &#8211; Iran and Russia government pressure<br /> (3:04:41) &#8211; Apple<br /> (3:11:38) &#8211; Poisoning<br /> (3:43:53) &#8211; Money<br /> (3:52:45) &#8211; TON<br /> (4:02:35) &#8211; Bitcoin<br /> (4:05:34) &#8211; Two chairs dilemma<br /> (4:12:14) &#8211; Children<br /> (4:23:24) &#8211; Father<br /> (4:27:55) &#8211; Quantum immortality<br /> (4:34:27) &#8211; Kafka</p> <p><b>PODCAST LINKS:</b><br /> &#8211; Podcast Website: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/podcast">https://lexfridman.com/podcast</a><br /> &#8211; Apple Podcasts: <a href="https://apple.co/2lwqZIr">https://apple.co/2lwqZIr</a><br /> &#8211; Spotify: <a href="https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8">https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8</a><br /> &#8211; RSS: <a href="https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/">https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/</a><br /> &#8211; Podcast Playlist: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4">https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4</a><br /> &#8211; Clips Channel: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/lexclips">https://www.youtube.com/lexclips</a></p>