Rebroadcast: An FBI agent went undercover in America’s extremist groups. Here’s what he learned.

About this episode

<p></p> <p><em>This episode from our <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/apple-news-in-conversation/id1577591053">Apple News In Conversation</a> archives is our most-listened-to interview of the year. It was originally published in June 2025.</em></p> <p>In his 22-year career in the FBI, undercover agent Scott Payne infiltrated some of the most dangerous criminal and extremist groups in America, from a motorcycle gang called the Outlaws to a white-supremacist group known as the Base. Payne shares his firsthand case accounts of gathering intelligence and stopping illegal activity in his memoir, <a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/code-name-pale-horse/id6469529888" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><em>Code Name: Pale Horse; How I Went Undercover to Expose America&rsquo;s Nazis</em></a><em>. </em>His story is also featured on the latest season of the <em>Slate</em> podcast <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-hot-hate-agent-pale-horse/id1591461032" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><em>White Hot Hate</em></a>. Payne sat down with <em>Apple News In Conversation</em> host Shumita Basu to talk about some of his most harrowing moments on the job and the growing threat of extremism in the U.S.</p>